Deep Abyss after Oneness/Seeing the Creator in Everyone (Podcast)

IN Intuitive Downloads

I sent in a question to the In the Now podcast (a podcast that discusses the Law of One), attempting to find answers and different perspectives and even help, to understand the experience I had going on 3 years ago when I had the oneness lens, and felt unconditional love for the world, and the deep-crash into the pits of hell that came afterwards. This is the transcript from the podcast.

You can listen to the episode in audio format from their website, here: In the Now Episode #62 (.mp3 file)

In the Now Episode #62

Jim: Greetings. This is Jim McCarty welcoming you to the L/L Research Podcast, In the Now, Episode #62. L/L Research is a nonprofit organization dedicated to freely sharing spiritually-oriented information and fostering community, and towards this end has two websites: the archive website, and the community website, During each episode, we respond to questions sent to L/L Research from spiritual seekers like you. Our panel consists of Austin Bridges, Gary Bean, and myself; each of us a devoted student of the Law of One.

Your questions allow us to explore the Law of One and related matters of metaphysical interest. We hope only to offer a resource that enhances your own seeking process. Please know that our replies are not the final word on these subjects, we ask each who listens to exercise her discernment, be sensitive to his resonance in determining what is true for him or her. If you would like to submit a question for the show, please do so; our humble podcast relies on your questions. You may either send an email to [email protected] or go to for further instructions. Again, I’m Jim McCarty and we are embarking on a new episode of L/L Research’s weekly podcast, In the Now. Gary & Austin, are we ready to go?

Gary: That is true.

Austin: I believe that I am.

Jim: All right. We have a question this week from a woman named Penny and her question is, and it has some background first:

If you activate your green-ray too early, and you go crazy into a delusional world where you ‘actually’ see the creator in everything and everyone and unconditional love for all, but then a new catalyst appears to make you doubt everything which sends you into despair and confusion, how do you repair it? If I activated it too early, how do I fix the damage that I have done within my own mind/body/spirit complex? I have a closed-heart now, and can’t seem to reactivate it.

I went from seeing all as creator and having unconditional love for all that is, to terror, fear, and crippling loss of beliefs, to now a kind of ‘nothingness’. I’m very stable now but I don’t ‘feel’ anything and although I appreciate the stability, I miss the ‘love’ and vibrancy and seeing all as the creator, it’s just ‘not there’ anymore.

Ok first of all, Austin what do you think about the concept of opening the green-ray too early? Is that possible and how could you tell it might be possible?

Austin: Well, I think that it does correlate with the Ra material somewhat. Ra talks about in talking about the energy centers; they reference it as raising the kundalini and there is a point where they say (this is in section 49):

This phenomenon has been called by your peoples the kundalini. However, it may better be thought of as a meeting place of the cosmic and inner, shall we say, vibratory understanding. To attempt to raise the locus of this meeting without realising the metaphysical principles of magnetism upon which this depends is to invite great imbalance.

So this concept of opening the heart too early may seem a little weird to think that opening it at all is a bad thing, but it’s possible that if somebody is really wilful or forcefully trying to like ‘blast their heart open’ without paying proper attention to the balancing techniques, and to other experiences that they’re having, that might build a firm foundation upon which that open heart can stand, then yeah I think it’s totally possible to experience something like this.

What Penny describes seems a little extreme to me, I don’t know how common that sort of thing would be, but as far as this concept of actually opening the heart too early, yeah I think it’s totally possible.

Jim: Ok, Gary, how about you, do you think that it’s possible to open your heart too early or do things happen as they should? Is it all always well? Are there any mistakes?

Gary: Well, to the way you’re asking that sets me on a slightly different trajectory than my prepared answer to her question.

Jim: Erase all that, what were you going to say? (laughs).

Gary: (laughs). That is a really interesting question and it’s not something that I had really addressed in my own reply and that’s that is it unsafe to open the heart? Because to me the heart is the refuge, is the safety point, is that which brings things into balance and offers protection and melts distortions and so on and so forth. So this concept of opening up the heart being an unsafe act, or jumping too far ahead before the self is ready is a bit confusing to me. But, so, do you want me to go into my long-answer or do you want me to…?

Jim: No, go right into your answer, I want to hear what you have to say.

Gary: So, first I would empathise to the experience that Penny is going through because it does sound difficult and I would start by repeating what Penny said but with her concept of green-ray changed to a human romantic relationship. So I will repeat sentence but with that replacement:

If you ‘fall in love’ with someone too early and you go crazy into a delusional world where you ‘actually’ see the creator in the one you love and the heart is so open that you see the creator in everyone and unconditional love for all, but then a new catalyst appears to make you doubt everything which sends you into despair / confusion, how do you repair it?

So naturally I cannot know what happened in your situation Penny but in attempting even a modicum of understanding, I keep coming back to “falling in love”. When you fall in love there is the universal experience of the honeymoon. The sky is bluer, the sun brighter, you walk with a lighter-step, you might be friendlier, softer, kinder, you might be more generous, you might smile more. Where there was resentment there might not be generosity of spirit, and so forth. But as everyone well knows, this experience generally has it’s end. It fades, it recedes, something happens, reminders that life isn’t as perfect as it had felt for a moment, reappear. The old patterns resume. Pain comes back. The traps of contraction and suffering replace the expansive sense of freedom. So what happens to the person who falls in love and walks on cloud nine? Was their joy a delusion? Is the love that they felt invalidated by the subsequent return of old patterns? Which version of themselves was the “real one” – the loved-filled person or the troubled-one?

So I don’t have good answers to these questions but I tend to think that any love is genuine or points at least, to something that’s genuine. Even chemically-induced states that seem superficial and temporary (say those preciprocated by alcohol) each experience of love must offer an experience of what love is, and in that light, I think you caught a glimpse – a big glimpse. Your experience was genuine, it revealed something to you. For a duration of time, you were on the mountain top. You saw more clearly, you were more consciously connected to your deeper identity, but, and this is dovetails with where Austin was headed with the principles of magnetism, you weren’t ready to find more permanent residence in those higher altitudes. There were things yet unaddressed within you, so you had to come back down and do more work in the valley. And that’s my best guess with emphasis on the word ‘guess’ as to your experience. And I don’t know what the mechanism was that allowed you to have this elevated state of consciousness, just like I don’t know what it is that happens when someone falls in love, and everything becomes right with the world. But if there are still imbalances and blockages somewhere, in an energetic system, especially in the first triad, then they will sooner or later, make themselves known to you. And all that this indicates is that there’s still work to do and you are capable of doing this work and you have a couple of basic options so far as my limited vision sees:

You can sit in the shadows, and claim that the sunlight was not real, because now all you see around you are shadows. You can let doubt write the narrative for you, or you can trust yourself. You can trust that the beauty of the experience you had was real. You can trust that ‘that love’ is within you, and that even though it’s not immediately apparent to you in this moment, it is available and it is awaiting; waiting for you. And of course you can and must honour your present experience, that is to say, accept your experience, work with your feelings as you’re feeling them. Treat yourself with respect where you are, but you can also trust that, that the love you knew, is let’s say shorthand for a truer, or a clearer vision of yourself and others. Another word for this kind of trust, that you can invoke is called faith. You can have faith that on the other side of your shadows, awaits the sunlight. Always, and forever.

Um… Just a couple more paragraphs here (laughs).

What you seek is transformation. That generally happens as a result of work in consciousness done over time. You can often come upon us as quick as a lightning flash, but there is much work in the dark soil of the self, that precedes illumination.

The goal, like, so you’re asking how to repair it, how to fix it.

The goal is not to produce a desired experience, or to re-manufacture your previous experience. The goal rather is to genuinely face and understand your self. There are underlying beliefs that are generating your current experience of doubt and despair and as you say ‘nothingness’. What are those? What are the blockages within you? The imbalances? What is it really that you fear? What is inside the darkness that you want so desperately to escape? How can you look honestly and compassionately at your inner-energy dynamics? And as importantly, how can you treat what you see with tenderness, acceptance and compassion?

In transformation, what you’re doing is creating the space or the inner-environment for love to come through. Love is intelligent. It is healing. It is transforming and it is simple, but you as a being possessed of free will have work to do in knowing and accepting yourself because you, like the rest of us, are blocking love and the experience of the creator in various complex ways and various levels, and for love to endure in your being, this transformation is needed.

And one quick final consideration, perhaps your experience was an initiation and perhaps the doubt, terror, fear and nothingness that you’re going through now is just part two. Back to you host, sorry.

Jim: Very good Gary, you covered a lot of ground there. I was thinking about how this opening, supposedly too early may of occurred. I would think that she would have to have been consciously working on opening her green-ray unless it was a gift. And if it were a gift then is also the doubt, and the new catalyst that came, a part of that gift? I’m going to assume for a moment at least, that her opening of the green-ray was a result of conscious effort, but she describes it herself as opening too-early, which suggests that one of the energy centers below the green-ray was probably not ready to receive the energy and hold it in a stable fashion and provide it to the green ray.

If there was a blockage in the orange-ray of our interpersonal relationships on a one-to-one basis. Or if there was a blockage of the yellow-ray of how we operate in groups and see ourselves as members of a larger consciousness? I’d be interested to know just exactly what the catalyst was, that would give me more of an idea if it were one or two of those energy centers.

Ra suggested that the red-ray is not one that is usually worked-upon. It has to do with sexual reproduction and survival. Although I would think that in the sexual-activity, sharing with others, that that would be something that could be affected consciously, there would be something that could be worked on by the seeker in one way or another that could either allow a freer flow of energy through the red-ray or it could block that energy.

So, I guess my question right now would be to wonder what the despair and confusion catalyst was and how can she repair it? Austin do you have any ideas on how she can repair this despair and confusion that has derailed her ability to experience unconditional love?

Austin: Yeah, well first let me apologise to Penny, she sent a long sub-context with her question but she didn’t include it in her question, and I didn’t include it in what you would read because it was pretty long and I don’t think she intended it to be included but, she did send some context and I can try and paraphrase because I did read it:

You were correct in assuming that this experience was a result of a conscious-effort. She had I think a very singular experience where one night she felt a kind of opportunity to sort of push through and open her heart and she very wilfully and intentionally sort of like, almost (in my interpretation) forced her way into her, and then the following day she woke up transformed into her initial configuration that she talks about, this “seeing everything as the creator”. I don’t think that she was specific in the experience that then knocked her down from that, but she said she had sort of fell from that great height and then subsequently used the balancing techniques to help balance the terror, fear and crippling loss of beliefs, and is now experiencing what she is saying is stability, but it’s more ‘nothingness’. So she’s no longer in the midst of those sort of unpleasant things but she is in sort of a stasis I guess is what she might describe it as, feeling of nothingness and then she just wants to then reactivate the heart again and experience that love once more.

So, that’s the context for her wanting to repair it, is that she’s managed to balance the negative-catalyst, but she hasn’t arrived at a point where she is able to feel that open heart again. So I think that Penny’s story reminds me a lot of is it Icarus who flew too close to the sun?

Gary: Right.

Austin: … And the wax wings melted and he plummeted to the sea. I think that’s sort of what happened to Penny. Icarus – what happened to him, was he got enamoured in the experience of flying, and forgot about the warnings that his father gave him who built him the wings, and he flew too high. So I think this points to the fact that this experience that she had is a universal experience, that it is something that people have been having talked about and making stories about for centuries because that is such a quintessential myth that has lasted forever – has lasted since it was come up with. But, how to repair it? I would say I think that something that she could do is simply request the experience that might help bring this reparation, I would be surprised if she hasn’t done that, but I just want to reiterate the fact that we believe that people are brought the experiences they needed to grow. Each entity receives the opportunity that each entity needs, so a gentle request I would say, not something so wilful or forceful as what brought her that initial experience, but a gentle request to have an experience that can help her open the heart again, I think it would go along way. But that’s probably obvious advice, so she might be looking for something a little more active. So I do think that there is something maybe she can focus on and pursuing this joy of the open heart that she got a glimpse of but can’t feel anymore, and I think that it starts with recognising the blessing of stability, like she describes it. She says that she is stable now but just can’t feel that open heart, and so I would say: Start by realising that that stability is truly a great blessing – even if it feels lacking of the joy, is a base of which to do spiritual work from. Most people, even those on a path of conscious-evolution, don’t have that luxury of stability in greeting their experiences with a solid ground. I think most of us, or a lot of people often feel as though we’re thrown-about by our emotions and that life itself is what is picking what we should be focusing on, rather than us having the ability to do that ourselves. But in her stability, I think that she has this opportunity to very deliberately and consciously pursue this path now. And we have in ‘stability’, this option to choose what we want to challenge ourselves with, instead of having life offer us challenges.

So I would ask Penny if she has any feeling in this stability at all of something that excites her or challenges her or that she finds uncomfortable (even if it’s just a small hint of any of those things), I think that to me that indicates a direction that she should head in, sort of a path to consciously choose to take those steps in that direction, instead of waiting for something to come to her, and even if it doesn’t seem like a direct path to the open heart, if it doesn’t seem like that path will lead to the joy of the open heart, I think that any sort of inner-feedback like that can help start on that path because in my experience, the opening of the heart doesn’t always happen through a direct experience of a joyful circumstance. Sometimes it can be a more challenging circumstance that allows us to open up the heart. So given her previous experience with very wilfully and forcefully opening the heart, I would emphasise the need to do this with caution and gentleness for the self. Just testing waters, not diving too deep, but pushing the boundaries of this stability, and really sort of figuring out what might make her uncomfortable, or what really excites her and from that stable ground, take steps in that direction. And I think that the benefit of stability is that ability to pursue these less-pleasant experiences that many people experience without intention, we can do that in stability with care and caution and we can be prepared with the habit of meditation and the knowledge of the balancing exercises, and just knowledge of balance itself which it sounds like she’s seeking that knowledge and advice for that knowledge.

So, I think it starts with recognising what a blessing stability is and then just working from that point very intentionally and listening to those even small inner-hints of what direction to take.

Jim: Great job Austin, I love the suggestions in there. Gary, what do you think she can go about repairing this difficulty, this blockage she has in her open heart now?

Gary: As I was suggesting earlier, just to work with where she is, to pay attention to her experience. It sounds, I read in her words and this may be… I hope I’m not imposing an interpretation of her words in hearing what’s she saying, but there’s an aversion to where she is, there’s an attachment to the former experience (to the extent that she trusted that it was real) and an aversion to her present experience – she wants to run-away from where she is, and like Austin was indicating where she is, is informative, is teaching her something, it’s not, nothing is being imposed ‘upon her’, that is not somehow a function of what she needs to learn and her own journey, and so I think an acceptance is needed, a tenderness is needed, and one specific energy dynamic that comes to my mind that may be helpful for her to investigate is self-doubt.

She used the word doubt as part of what transpired ‘after’ she lost this experience of the open-heart. So what was it that’s ‘being’ doubted? I think ultimately it’s the self – she doubts herself on a deep-level. So I think there could be very profitable work there to find where and how she is doubting the self, or is not trusting the self, or is not listening to the self, and so on and so forth, and that sort of work I think helps clear out the blockages through balance and understanding and acceptance, and creates the space within which energy can return to the open heart and begin to gradually, organically, of it’s own rhythm, rise into higher chakras and higher perception.

Jim: Alright, very good Gary.

When I was thinking about this, I was thinking there might be at least two different approaches she can take. Going back and looking at the difficult catalyst that came her way and caused the self-doubt, then going forward from that point on into whatever her future holds according to the work that she’s able to do to unblock the heart.

I think that in a situation like this, it’s really helpful if we can get in touch with some other portion of her own mind-complex whether it’s our subconscious minds (what Ra called the higher priestess), our higher-self, a guide, a teacher of some sort on the inner-planes that we may have contact with in previous experiences. There are a number of ways of getting in contact with our subconscious mind or higher-self or guides, and I think that one of them might be helpful for her to deal with the catalyst that was so terrorising and caused the self-doubt might be to use the dream-state to make a suggestion to your subconscious mind each night before you go to bed, that you would like to have some sort of a dream-message that can give you an idea of how better to utilise the catalyst that came your way, in which proved to be so difficult to deal with, and if you can do this on a periodic basis – on a nightly basis, I think that it can produce real results.

If dream-work doesn’t seem like it’s something that is really for you, if it doesn’t ring any bells for you, I think you can get to basically the same point by keeping a journal or writing some personal entries into a journal on a daily-basis where you attempt to delve into the catalyst that you experienced. Maybe even go back into how you moved into the heart with that wilful push, when you had the opportunity or the invitation. Examine the entire experience from that invitation, to how it manifested and how you felt when it manifested, then to how the catalyst felt when it came your direction and how you dealt with the catalyst and why you feel like now you’re in a state that you would describe as stable but really not able to feel much – feeling kind of I guess ho-hum or neutral about everything.

I think that sometimes when we keep a little journal and we really do ask ourselves – our conscious selves or some portion of our subconscious these questions, maybe meditate on them a little bit, and then begin to do some writing, we can begin to access information that’s held a little deeper in our either conscious mind or subconscious mind and partake in what I guess a lot of people would call automatic writing. So that you’re able to bring forth some illumination and direction from a deeper part of your own self. That’s really what you’re looking for here because you’re the seeker of truth here and you have gotten to the point where you were able to get into your heart, I mean I’m very impressed with that, that was you know whether or not you did it wilfully or forcefully, just the fact that you did it, is quite amazing, so I think that you have a kind of an inner-resource, a power, an energy within you that you can harness, and focus in a certain direction and again whether it’s the dreams or whether it’s journalling, or meditation, I think that if you are telling your subconscious mind or your higher-self or your guides that you really do want to work through the situation, you really do want to balance it, you really do want to open your heart in a stable fashion so you can be of service to others, so that you really can see the creator everywhere and appreciate the unity of all of creation because of that. I think then that you can begin to get a pathway opened into your deeper-mind and get some answers back here.

Does anybody else have a thought on anything she can do to repair the situation?

Austin: No I thought that was really beautiful, thank you for that.

Gary: Yeah, likewise.

Jim: Well (laughs) thank you for expanding upon that. Alright, does anybody else have anything on any other aspect of her experience that we need to cover here? I think I’ve covered everything I can think of. How about you Austin?

Austin: I just wanted to mention sort of briefly that what Penny experienced doesn’t necessarily seem typical or normal; it seems kind of extreme in my mind. And, just to gently point out that as humans, with human bodies, we rely on our human-body brains to sort of guide our consciousness, and this consciousness is filtered through our brains and some people have atypical brain chemistry or atypical brain configurations and while the psychiatric or therapy industries can be rife with a lack of understanding of spiritual principles, seeking a therapist in certain situations like this isn’t always a bad thing – especially if you can find one that is sensitive to your own personal spiritual understandings or own spiritual path, then they can learn more about your own sort of not only brain-makeup but the context of your whole-life that might of led to such an extreme experience, so if therapy is something that Penny would agree with and has the ability to seek-out, and if it resonates with her, then it could be a useful path to try to sort of both figure out what happened and how to help repair it, and how to approach a spiritual path in a more balanced manner with the help of somebody that has a deeper understanding of how her brain is interfacing with this reality around us, so just a gentle suggestion from me.

Jim: That was a really good suggestion Austin. Gary, any final thoughts for Penny?

Gary: I don’t know how helpful it is to consider but I was just thinking about the sequence of the energy centers and the roles that they play, and I think coming back to the idea that this wasn’t her experience, her experience wasn’t green-ray alone – of course green-ray is the seat of unconditional love, but I feel (and I could be 100% off), but that her energy made it up to blue-ray even indigo-ray and even some kind of piercing of the veil that allowed this vision of oneness but due to the way it transpired, and you know, potentially unreadiness or imbalance in the lower-chakras, the subsequent crash was all the more difficult to bare – to feel like you are standing in the sunlight, and all of a sudden you’re in four-walls with a ceiling and floor and there’s no windows and no light and what happened, was that even real? That disparity between the two must create a big pain-gap. And I’ve definitely been there in terms of feeling like I’m up on the heights and then ‘not’ anymore. And it can definitely be rough. Anyway, I just think that there’s more than just green-ray involved.

Jim: Yeah that’s a good point Gary. I was just kind of dabbling with that thought earlier but I didn’t pursue it, but now that you’ve mentioned it, I think that one of the facets or qualities of the indigo-ray is the magical personality. The ability to create changes in consciousness at will, is the classic definition of magic. And I think that that’s basically what she did. She used her will to take an opportunity that was given to her and to be able to move into the heart right now – you might think well, how could she do anything with her indigo-ray when she’s just trying to get into her heart? And Ra said we don’t necessarily open our energy-centers in order. What is the most important thing to do, is to open them in a balanced-fashion so that there isn’t too much energy being expended in one area and too little in another which would cause us to have difficulty in bringing through a steady-flow of energy that could be used by any of the energy centers.

So it may well be that Penny does have some ability to use her indigo-ray and again, I would suggest to her (as I believe Austin has too), to, in a gentle fashion, ask for assistance from her higher-self or her subconscious mind or guides, or just her deeper-mind, just whatever source of information is available, just ask for a little guidance and some balance in proceeding along this path, that there is a now a renewed desire to become a functioning member of the open-heart, and to be able to utilise the all-compassionate love that is located there in which she has already tasted very sweetly and would like once-again to partake of.

So, I think that pretty much does it unless there’s a final thought from anyone?

Austin: Not from me, good luck Penny.

Gary: Yeah maybe just really quickly, I just had some thoughts based off of what you guys just talked about. Ra described the green-ray as a springboard. So that’s probably what happened, where she was spring-boarding from that unconditional love that she was already aware of and knew existed and then spring-boarded a little too high, I guess.

Jim: Okay, good job guys. Penny we do wish all the luck in the world and we’d love to hear from you in the future just to hear how you’re doing, we love you a lot and we send you our love.

You’ve been listening to the L/L Research’s bi-weekly podcast, In the Now. If you’ve enjoyed the show, please visit our websites: and Thank you so much for listening, and for supporting this podcast with your questions, and a special thank you to Penny for sending us the question featured in this episode. If you’d like to hear us ramble-on about a particular topic, please read the instructions on the page at New episodes are published to the archive website every other Wednesday afternoon, Eastern-time. We hope since we have this contact with you every other week, that you will remember from podcast-to-podcast, from day-to-day, and hour-to-hour to keep opening your hearts in love in a gentle fashion, and keep persistently doing it and sharing it with those about you. That’s the way we change the world, just one sweet thought at a time. Have a wonderful couple of weeks – we’ll talk to you later.

Penny (
Penny (

Who are we? What are we doing here? What is the meaning of life? Penny is a truth-seeker, ever-questioning, ever-learning, ever-researching, ever delving further and deeper down the rabbit hole. This site is a legacy of sorts, a place to collect thoughts, notes, book summaries, whilst providing a searchable archive to easily lookup and reference.

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